Should there be a death penalty?

Discussion in 'Debates' started by Robbin, May 11, 2015.

?

Should there be a death penalty?

  1. Yes - Tell use why

  2. No - Tell use why

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Robbin

    Robbin PukingRainbowz's Cousin

    [​IMG]
    YES

    Yes because if there was a death penalty in place there would be less murder/rape etc. happening. There would be higher consequences at stake and would make them think twice about doing it. If they do carry out murder or rape then does that even make them human anymore? You say every life should be treasured but if they were released back into society wouldn't they just kill again because if they've done it once then it's simply within their nature and capability to do it again. Bottom line is it would prevent a lot of this stuff happening as they would think more of the consequences. Prison really is not that bad nowadays, heck, you're fed, cleaned up after, gets to play the xbox for crying out loud.

    NO
    There are several different reasons why the death penalty should be banned. But the most prominent and important reason is the fact that innocent people are convicted and then put to death for something they never even dreamed of doing. As a matter of fact there have been over 100 people who had once been put on death row that are now proven innocent.
    However even if that was not the case, restorative justice would be much more efficient and less costly. It would give the ones who are rightly convicted the opportunity to change and at least give them opportunity to begin making up for what they did wrong.
    In conclusion, for those who have been personally hurt by someone deserving the death penalty, wouldn't it be better to see that person change their life around for the good rather than be killed in similar fashion to your loved one? Whether one's life is taken should never be based on one's emotions. It should be based upon prudence, understanding, and wisdom.

    Should there be a death penalty?
    Why or why not?

    I persnally think we should have the death penalty as a last resort, after everything else was tried.

    @skarmick you asked for this debate :p
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 11, 2015
    skarmick likes this.
  2. skarmick

    skarmick @GoOnSkar

    Funny, I wrote an essay about this in 7th grade xD
    Anyways, lets get started.


    No, I do not think there should be a death penalty.

    My thoughts are that it won't lower the percentages of high profile crimes, due to the fact that if somebody is going to murder/rape, etc. than they obviously know that if they do get caught, they are going to jail. I don't think death will stop too many people from doing these crimes, due to the fact that they probably aren't thinking when they commit these crimes. they be on drugs, etc.
    An important fact to realize is that it costs more to legally kill someone, than keep them in jail for the rest of their life. Now, again this is arguable, I found a few websites that have PRO's and CON's about which is more expensive. Here is one of them: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty
    I also believe the famous quote 'Two wrongs don't make right" quote.
    If somebody murders many different people, than I think keeping them in jail for life is just fine, they don't need to be killed, I think that is an inhumane way to end somebody's life. Although, yes they did kill somebody themselves, we still need to look at the "Two wrongs don't make a right" Quote, showing that, yes they did kill multiple people, but do we really need to kill them? No, I think jailing them for life is a perfect consequence for their actions. When you say the death penalty is a 'Last Resort' I don't understand what you're saying by that. If their jailed for life, that should be their last resort, and if they escape from a prison, that's the prisons fault, that they gave an opportunity for the person to escape from prison. Now yes, it was the suspects choice to escape from prison, but they obviously found a mistake in the prison's system, so they shouldn't be blamed for that. But, that's mostly off-topic. For example, if they murder somebody, escape from prison, then murder another victim, that's not only their fault, but it's also the State/Prisons fault.


     
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  3. xSkaro

    xSkaro ey

    The way you present blame in your comment is not exactly how I would think of it. First of all, it is the State's fault but not because of errors in prisons. It is because if they used the death penalty against the suspect earlier, there wouldn't be no escape or future crimes. However, since most people see the death penalty as inhumane and pity, they jail them. Jailing them will only prolong potential crime. It's like saying 'I'm going to jail you so you can escape later to murder more people.' As most people know, not everything is perfect. Who's to say the jail will succeed? Just like in crime movies, something is bound to go wrong and it usually does most of the time. You know, if the suspect never broke the law, they wouldn't be in this situation. So they technically put themselves in trouble and deserve to suffer the consequences. Others may look at this as "They don't deserver to die. They're just like any other human." Well their actions just caused an innocent life to die. You could be the next victim. So I say an eye for an eye.
    *Whether
     
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  4. PukingRainbowz

    PukingRainbowz New Member

    2muchwurdz5me
     
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  5. EA_Sharks

    EA_Sharks New Member

    *Too many
     
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  6. PukingRainbowz

    PukingRainbowz New Member

    gremmer n0 preblem spooling n0 prebolm
     
  7. homey2thefry

    homey2thefry #R3KTF0RD4Y$

    i kahn sp3hl beehtah dehn u. 1v1 mai sp3hlng kantust i kanh rehck u
     
  8. MLGProGamer123

    MLGProGamer123 Viva La Vida

    aY beet al uf u at sp00lin and gremm0r
     
  9. EA_Sharks

    EA_Sharks New Member

    Wiserdary?
     
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  10. MLGProGamer123

    MLGProGamer123 Viva La Vida

    Idek cx
     
  11. PukingRainbowz

    PukingRainbowz New Member

    fite mi en rel
     
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  12. MLGProGamer123

    MLGProGamer123 Viva La Vida

    Puking :,)
     
  13. PukingRainbowz

    PukingRainbowz New Member

    >:[
     
  14. MLGProGamer123

    MLGProGamer123 Viva La Vida

    <3 c:
     
  15. PukingRainbowz

    PukingRainbowz New Member

    ihy because I can't stay mad at you and that's frustrating -.-
     
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  16. EA_Sharks

    EA_Sharks New Member

    Will u pls fite me irl cos I plae wii fit lots so I'm rely strong
     
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  17. MLGProGamer123

    MLGProGamer123 Viva La Vida

    :,) you strong girl
     
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  18. PukingRainbowz

    PukingRainbowz New Member

    cum 2 peperni p0ptrt 191969 r0@d wii fite
     
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  19. MLGProGamer123

    MLGProGamer123 Viva La Vida

    I love you three so much :,)
     
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  20. PukingRainbowz

    PukingRainbowz New Member

    We love you too, so it's all good ;u;
     
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  21. MLGProGamer123

    MLGProGamer123 Viva La Vida

    <3 c:
     
  22. PukingRainbowz

    PukingRainbowz New Member

    c: *insert heart instead of "<3"*
     
  23. MLGProGamer123

    MLGProGamer123 Viva La Vida

    cx so silly
     
  24. PukingRainbowz

    PukingRainbowz New Member

    oi, I'm not silly ;c

    well maybe o-o
     
  25. MLGProGamer123

    MLGProGamer123 Viva La Vida

    I'm sorry, please forgive me c;
     
  26. PukingRainbowz

    PukingRainbowz New Member

    Okay, but you've got to buy me ice cream ^-^
     
  27. MLGProGamer123

    MLGProGamer123 Viva La Vida

    Of course c:
    *sends ice cream*
     
  28. PukingRainbowz

    PukingRainbowz New Member

    There's no rainbow sprinkles ;_;
     
  29. xSkaro

    xSkaro ey

    <3
    *sends a truck full of rainbow sprinkles* :3 there
     
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  30. PukingRainbowz

    PukingRainbowz New Member

    ;u; yey
     
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  31. MLGProGamer123

    MLGProGamer123 Viva La Vida

    *sends mint chocolate ice cream with rainbow sprinkles*
    c:
     
  32. PukingRainbowz

    PukingRainbowz New Member

    thank god I love mint ;D
     
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  33. MLGProGamer123

    MLGProGamer123 Viva La Vida

    You're welcome <3 c;
     
  34. PukingRainbowz

    PukingRainbowz New Member

    ty ty <3
     
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  35. EA_Sharks

    EA_Sharks New Member

    I'm loved :eek:
     
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  36. MLGProGamer123

    MLGProGamer123 Viva La Vida

    :,)
     
  37. Robbin

    Robbin PukingRainbowz's Cousin

    What about me ;-;
     
  38. MLGProGamer123

    MLGProGamer123 Viva La Vida

    No
     
  39. Robbin

    Robbin PukingRainbowz's Cousin

    [​IMG]
    #foreveraone :c
     
  40. TheHydraPhoenix

    TheHydraPhoenix Marvel Addict

    no because we need to torture people! >:)
     
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  41. GG10HeartedPvP

    GG10HeartedPvP Callum + Josh = Jallum <3

    I think we should have a dea penalty for extremely HORRIBLE people.
    Such as.
    • Murders
    • Rapists
    • Terrorists
    I think these three are the main people that should be sentenced to death because it can cause permanent damage.

    For say.

    MURDERS

    Murders cause permanent scars on the people who witnessed it or the family's of the victim.
    This also can cause a child to grow up with no father or mother.
    If a child is murdered then the parents have to live with the thought of there child being dead.
    If a important person is murder, such as a famous author that would mean that we would never get to read, hear,corn listen to they're beautiful writing,ideas,or speeches.

    RAPIST

    Rapists can cause HORRIBLE damage to the victim such as suicidal thoughts or actions.
    Depression or strange feelings about telling someone that you were raped.Rapists can cause people to need to buy a therapist, counsellor, or hotline service for they're feelings.Which costs money which can lead into financial issues which can cause them to lose there house, job, car, and many other important things.

    TERRORISTS

    Terrorists can cause injuries, family problems, medical expenses, and more.They deserve the death sentence because they have done a awful act of mass-murder.This is the act of terrorism.Think about it.If a terrorist plants a bomb, or uses a suicide vest.They have the chance of killing themselves, and ,many others.This cannot just cause pain and suffering in the family, but in the financial areas to because if the family friend/member dies they have to buy a funeral server which costs a lot, but if they stay alive then they need to pay medical bills.

    These were my reasons why some people deserve the death sentence and it should be legal.

    (this is coming from a 13 year old so don't expect much)
     
  42. TheHydraPhoenix

    TheHydraPhoenix Marvel Addict

    very well said
     
  43. Robbin

    Robbin PukingRainbowz's Cousin

    Words of wisdom (I dont say that to many people)
     
  44. GG10HeartedPvP

    GG10HeartedPvP Callum + Josh = Jallum <3

    I'm only 13 tho..
     
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  45. Maxxy

    Maxxy •Ex-Devil•

    I think it should be more interesting in the USA... instead of holding people in prison, they should spice up the game a little >:-D
     
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  46. GG10HeartedPvP

    GG10HeartedPvP Callum + Josh = Jallum <3

    Good old Americans always trying to spice it up..
     
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  47. Maxxy

    Maxxy •Ex-Devil•

    Anyways, I think we should have a death penalty. People take advantage of the part where we are given a second chance.
    - Murderers
    - Rapists
    - Terrorists
    They deserve to die. They killed, raped, and terrorized people for a reason.
     
  48. cool

    cool New Member

    Yep makes sense, dont kill people, but were gonna kill people. Hahahah logic right?
     
  49. PukingRainbowz

    PukingRainbowz New Member

    If you think that murderers don't deserve a death penalty idk what's wrong with you.. e_e
     
  50. cool

    cool New Member

    • 1
    1. Woman found innocent of murder after 17 years -...
      www.aol.com/.../woman-found-innocent-of-murder.../20976521Cached
      Oct 10, 2014 · Pnkfldman October 11 2014 at 2:19 PM. Actually the prosecution and police knew she was innocent. What should happen is the prosecutor and at least 1 police ...

    2. Baby sitter found innocent in murder trial of...
      www.ktvb.com/.../2015/04/23/natasha-hodges-innocent/26232551Cached
      Baby sitter found innocent in murder trial of 2-year-old. 31-year-old Natasha N. Hodges wept as the jury read their verdict Wednesday clearing her of first-degree murder.

    3. Murder Found Innocent News
    4. After 13 Years in Prison, Man Found Innocent of...
      www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Daniel-Larsen-Murder...Cached
      Mar 19, 2013 · After 13 Years in Prison, Man Found Innocent of Crime Freed Daniel Larsen was sentenced to 27-years-to-life in prison for a crime a judge ruled he didn't ...

    5. 10 Innocent People Sentenced To Death - Listverse
      listverse.com/2013/04/09/10-innocent-people-sentenced-to...Cached
      Apr 08, 2013 · There have been hundreds of cases of people sentenced to death and later found innocent, ... Bloodsworth had been convicted of the rape and murder of a ...

    6. 26-Year Secret Kept Innocent Man In Prison - CBS...
      www.cbsnews.com/news/26-year-secret-kept-innocent-man-in...Cached
      26-Year Secret Kept Innocent Man In Prison. Lawyers Tell 60 Minutes They Were Legally Bound From Revealing Secret. ... But a jury found him guilty of first degreemurder.

    7. See how a man found innocent of murder reacts...
      www.upworthy.com/see-how-a-man-found-innocent-of-murder...Cached
      Meet Ricky Jackson. His 1975 murder conviction was based on the testimony of a 12-year-old child. Jackson was in jail for 39 years for a crime he didn't commit.

    whats wrong with me
     
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  51. ItsRias

    ItsRias Brady

    I feel that there shouldn't be one but i think people should be in jail for life. I feel that people are put here for a reason and they have choices so if they make a wrong one they get in trouble but i do not think there should be death unless defense for ure life example(omsama beloden it think) but that is also my opinion but my region also has something to do with it.
     
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  52. GG10HeartedPvP

    GG10HeartedPvP Callum + Josh = Jallum <3

    I said they DO deserve it
     
  53. PukingRainbowz

    PukingRainbowz New Member

    I was using your bullets as examples..
     
  54. GG10HeartedPvP

    GG10HeartedPvP Callum + Josh = Jallum <3

    Oh, sorry for my mistake.
     
  55. cool

    cool New Member

    JS ...
     
  56. GG10HeartedPvP

    GG10HeartedPvP Callum + Josh = Jallum <3

    You for got to capitalize the "I" lel

    They didn't have a reason too...They are just ****** up.
     
  57. Maxxy

    Maxxy •Ex-Devil•

    Pretty much :p
     
  58. Robbin

    Robbin PukingRainbowz's Cousin

    I remember watching this documentary about a man that was in prison for 30 years and he was proven innocent and was released he was given a shit ton of money after suing the police agency that wrongfully put him in jail
     
  59. Yummy

    Yummy Zlol13's brother

    As you said, "Not everything is perfect".

    That means you can't say this

    Because as you know, the justice system currently is not as effective as it should be.

    Also, don't you think it's more torture to spend what seems like eternity in a prison cell, as opposed to just being killed right there?

    Isn't that the concept of hell in religion? Although hell supposedly puts you in a lot more pain than prison, the reason religious people fear it so is because of the time scale. It never ends. It's worse to go mad forever; that's why many people try to kill themselves in prison.

    And you can't say either that the person will escape and commit more crimes, because prison, although not 100% useful in that light, is partially effective because it gives criminals time to reflect on their actions and realize, which isn't as simple as people may think
     
  60. Jace

    Jace ⚠️State Bound 100 Meter Dash⚠️

    Yes. I believe all homicidal monsters deserve the death penalty. I just think the death penalty is based off of how sick the person is. And basically I see it as, "If you commit a homicide, you will die." My idea for the death penalty is for them to feel what it's like to be a victim in a way. Let's say a man poisoned his wife to death. Why not give him Lethal Injection to paralyze/stop his heart?

    Examples: A man simply rapes a 15 year-old girl. No death was involved as it was just rape. Answer: Obvious no death penalty. He will simply face jail time.
    v Death sentences v

    1. A man kills 5 people with a pistol. Answer: Firing Squad
    2. A man burns a retirement home down killing 130 people. Answer: Torture him with scalding water for an 1-3 hours without drowning him. Finally cover him with oil and let him burn to death.
    3. A heartless man goes on a massacre and kills 20 people with an assault rifle. He chops up several bodies into pieces and rapes a dead girl's corpse. Answer: Cut off his fingers and toes during interrogation. The interrogation will last for 2 hours. Finally, death by firing squad.
    4. A man and 2 friends murdered a woman. The first guy killer her while the friends lure her into an alley where the man shoots her. Answer: Since the homicide wasn't too bad, the man that shot her will be given Lethal Injection. The 2 friends will face charges and will serve a lifetime in prison as they did not actually kill her but simply got her killed.

    Ways that the death penalty are good: http://biblebelievers.com/jmelton/punish.html http://prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2012/03/death-penalty-saving-more-innocent.html http://prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2012/03/innocents-more-at-risk-without-death.html

    Guys, I have a way to back up my claim. The 2 escaped convicts. The state of NY wouldn't be in fear if the 2 murders received the death penalty. Well there you go. Two homicidal prisoners escape the Clinton Correctional Facility. They even injured several guards during the escape. These dangerous men should have been giving the death penalty. They attacked innocent prison guards. So, yeah. Definitely for the death penalty. It keeps the world clean from heartless homicidal monsters.​

    Another reason why I believe the death penalty is right: http://squadcraft.net/threads/this-is-getting-so-f-king-ridiculous.15070/
     
  61. EA_Sharks

    EA_Sharks New Member

    I personally don't think there should be a death penalty but I'm on my phone so typing an argument will be hell. Let me just say this, if there was/is a death penalty, the person should not be killed in a brutal or an inhumane way because two wrongs don't make a right. They should be killed painlessly with something like carbon monoxide. Still, I don't think anyone should be killed, just jailed.
     
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  62. Jace

    Jace ⚠️State Bound 100 Meter Dash⚠️

    I like this message from the provided source: http://biblebelievers.com/jmelton/punish.html

    "he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword."

    Basically, if you kill someone with a certain weapon, you should get executed by the weapon you used to commit a homicide. As I stated in my previous message about the 2 escaped killers, these killers attacked people during the escape. If they were simply executed, those innocent guards wouldn't have gotten injured.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2015
  63. EA_Sharks

    EA_Sharks New Member

    I don't base my opinions off a 6000 year old book.
     
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  64. Jace

    Jace ⚠️State Bound 100 Meter Dash⚠️

  65. EA_Sharks

    EA_Sharks New Member

  66. Yummy

    Yummy Zlol13's brother

     
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  67. EA_Sharks

    EA_Sharks New Member

    lmfao
     
  68. Yummy

    Yummy Zlol13's brother

    By that logic the executioners should be executed, and the executioner's executioners should be executed and so on.....................

    I hope you see the problem here.....
     
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  69. Jace

    Jace ⚠️State Bound 100 Meter Dash⚠️

    What type of funky junk crap what???? I don't think you understand what an execution is... *facepalm* EAT A F**KING SNICKERS WHAT
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2015
  70. Yummy

    Yummy Zlol13's brother

    And I don't think you're very good at denying the inherently flawed logic :p but okay
     
  71. Jace

    Jace ⚠️State Bound 100 Meter Dash⚠️

    What? WHAT IS THIS ILLUMINATI SH*T YOUR SAYING??? The Government (Highest Rank in a Country) allows the executioner to execute the murderer. How is that a-dlgskktskuslyzyosylztMesaaktaiatoakt
     
  72. Yummy

    Yummy Zlol13's brother

    Calm your tits


    "he that killeth with the sword must be killedwith the sword."

    If a murderer is executed by a man, then that executioner also becomes someone who "killeth with the sword" and so that statement says the executioner should be killed also, and so on etc.
     
  73. EA_Sharks

    EA_Sharks New Member

    Very astute Jace! That's a little nugget of wisdom I'd like to jot down.
     
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  74. Jace

    Jace ⚠️State Bound 100 Meter Dash⚠️

    The thing is, the executioner is technically the government as they allowed the executioner to execute the killer. Who would be higher than a Country's Government?
     
  75. Yummy

    Yummy Zlol13's brother

    Lmfao

    "God"
     
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  76. Jace

    Jace ⚠️State Bound 100 Meter Dash⚠️

    *sigh* Yum either way you will not change my opinion.
     
  77. smeags

    smeags Intentionally Philosophical

    Thought it was God. :(
     
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  78. Yummy

    Yummy Zlol13's brother

    I never tried to. I only showed you the flaw
     
  79. Jace

    Jace ⚠️State Bound 100 Meter Dash⚠️

    You don't believe in God/the Bible so why even argue?

    I have spoken my word about the Death Penalty and I do not need people to start a pointless argument. I will now unwatch this thread.
     
  80. Yummy

    Yummy Zlol13's brother

    Oh nice assumption di**head
     
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  81. Jace

    Jace ⚠️State Bound 100 Meter Dash⚠️

    What the f*ck what happened to the old Yum he turned into a real jerk now.
     
  82. smeags

    smeags Intentionally Philosophical

    The Flaw.
    Horror Movie 101

    Oh not this again.
     
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  83. Sloww

    Sloww ily

    You're one to talk x.x.
     
  84. Jace

    Jace ⚠️State Bound 100 Meter Dash⚠️

    Tbh I'm laughing rn this thread is too funny

    Every thread I touch turns into an argument xD

    I don't even take arguments seriously every single reply from me and everyone else is so corny, funny and stupid xD
     
  85. Yummy

    Yummy Zlol13's brother

    Umm if you find this thread so funny that you're laughing irl you really need to go outside :/

    *is homophobic and all this crap and makes a meaningless apology and expects everything to be okay*

    *gets called an A**hole by one guy*

    OMG SUCH A JERK
     
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  86. Jace

    Jace ⚠️State Bound 100 Meter Dash⚠️

    Oh my gosh you make me laugh so much lololol I can go outside but I'd rather stay indoors
     
  87. Yummy

    Yummy Zlol13's brother

    Thought you unwatched the thread
     
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  88. Jace

    Jace ⚠️State Bound 100 Meter Dash⚠️

    IKR? HE IS SUCH A JERK SO MUCH OML WHAT A MEANIE SUE HIM HE BAD LOL

    I got an alert from you after doing so and I'm like, "DAFAQ OH HELL NAH IM NOT UNWATCHING THE THREAD ITS PURE GOLD"

    I do not care about what's happening in this thread because it's pointless
     
  89. Yummy

    Yummy Zlol13's brother

    I'm pretty sure the point of unwatching a thread is so that no matter who replies, you do not feel tempted to look back or get alerts.

    Oh well
     
  90. Jace

    Jace ⚠️State Bound 100 Meter Dash⚠️

    Yep oh well I guess I'm too addicted to this thread lol

    So when was the last time you went to a fast food restaurant?

    Just saying I find everything a joke now because I don't think I should take things seriously.
     
  91. Yummy

    Yummy Zlol13's brother

    Just today actually. (I work as a cashier)

    I served some kid called Jace pretty hard :)
     
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  92. Jace

    Jace ⚠️State Bound 100 Meter Dash⚠️

    OML THAT IS SO COOL!

    You served him hard huh? That's assualt, he can't shove a (French frie) into that Jace guy's butt dude disgusting

    Enough with the sex jokes dude what are you on?

    When you served him, you should have said, "Do you want Ketchup with that?"
     
  93. Yummy

    Yummy Zlol13's brother

    Okay you're not funny... (like you ever were) :p
     
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  94. Jace

    Jace ⚠️State Bound 100 Meter Dash⚠️

    Wut who said I'm trying to be funny bruh? I'm just trying to lose my anger and go crazy since I do not care about this. As they always say, "We're all crazy in Chicago"

    So, how is Winter? ;)

    Mexican and Black jokes are the same thing. Once you've heard Juan you've heard Jamal.
     
  95. Sloww

    Sloww ily

    Honestly, you've turned into an idiot.
     
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  96. Jace

    Jace ⚠️State Bound 100 Meter Dash⚠️

    So, I'm trying to be the old Maroon but it's hard. Would you prefer to be going back to being a jerk?

    Guys, your choice. I'm trying to go back to my old self. But too much hate. I'm starting to consider on going back to being an absolute jerk.

    No way out no matter how hard I try to change, so maybe it's for the best to be a jerk.

    I don't want to be it again but @Yummy is basically telling me to as he continues being a jerk to me no matter how hard I try to stay positive and try to hold in my anger for the stuff he is saying to me.
     
  97. Yummy

    Yummy Zlol13's brother

    If I had it my way, you'd be gone completely

    "I'm starting to consider on going back to being an absolute jerk."

    OH NO SUCH A THREAT WE ARE ALL SOOO SCARED. Do it. Noone here would give a toss - if you're going to act like a 7 year old and say something as stupid as that, you clearly didn't mean your apology.
     
    Sloww likes this.
  98. Jace

    Jace ⚠️State Bound 100 Meter Dash⚠️

    Omg you clearly do not understand me. I obviously meant it, as I have been trying to change. I've been trying to stay positive as you can see in my above messages but you continue to ack like a d*ck to me. It's as if you want me to go back.
     
  99. Yummy

    Yummy Zlol13's brother

    No. Because if you're "starting to consider" it means you're making a conscious decision.

    Instead of telling me I don't understand, why don't you speak properly?
     
  100. Jace

    Jace ⚠️State Bound 100 Meter Dash⚠️

    And @Sloww liking every single message except for mine will not change a point omg
     

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